Hashim, the Feminist

I'm contributing to another blog.

Peep Good for a Girl- connecting women, hip-hop, and women in hip-hop. It's part of the follow up effort from the  Feminism in Hip-hop Conference that happened this weekend in Chicago. My hope is that  it will be a clearinghouse for info and discussion on this rolling meme about women in hip-hop that's been happening this year.

I love that this conversation is happening organically, from inside the culture first. Props to the wonderful Raquel Wilson and Miranda Jane for letting a guy like me be down with the movement. I feel excited about what can happen this year.

Also, take notice of and join the hip-hop feminism email group.

Comments

[Joey]

Hashim, you are the hip-hop-blog Vitruvian Man.

[Miz MJ]

Part I of my FHHC commentary is now live.

http://pyramids2projects.blogspot.com/2005/04/by-popular-demandfhhc-part-i.html

More to follow.

1

mj

[wardell]

just curious, do you see any irony in supporting lil' jon and ying yang on the one hand (i.e. attending their show) and becoming an active participant in the hip hop feminism conversation on the other?

[Hashim]

Wardell, I'm a neo-feminist

[wardell]

how does "neo-feminism" respond to this?:

"Wait (The Whisper Song)"
Ying Yang Twins

Hey how you doin lil mama? lemme whisper in your ear
Tell you sunthing that you might like to hear
You got a sexy ass body and your ass look soft
Mind if i touch it? and see if its soft
Naw i'm jus playin' lets just say i can
And im known to be a real nasty man
And they say a closed mouth dont get fed
So i dont mind asking for your head
You heard what i said, we need to make our way to the bed
And you can start usin' yo head
You like to fuck, have yo legs open all in da butt
Do it up slappin ass cuz the sex gets rough
Switch the positions and ready to get down to business
So you can see what you've been missin'
You might had some but you never had none like this
Just wait til you see my dick

Ay bitch! wait til you see my dick
Wait til you see my dick
Ay bitch! wait til you see my dick
Imma beat dat pussy up
Ay bitch! wait til you see my dick
Wait you see my dick
Ay bitch! wait til you see my dick
Imma beat dat pussy up

Like B-AM, B-AM, B-AM, B-AM, B-AM,
B-AM, B-AM, B-AM, B-AM, B-AM, B-AM,
B-AM, B-AM, B-AM, B-AM, B-AM

Beat da pussy up, Beat da pussy up,
Beat da pussy up, Beat da pussy up,
Beat da pussy up, Beat da pussy up,
Beat da pussy
Up, Beat da pussy up

[verse 2]

You fine, but i aint gone sweat ya
See i wanna fuck, tell me whats up
Walk around the club with yo thumb in ya mouth
Put my dick in, take your thumb out
There might be a lil ? to deal with
Wet ? hope they dont spill shit
I keep a hoe hot when i'm puttin' in work
Wanna skeet skeet you bout to get your feelin's hurt
Cuz I'll beat dat cat with a dog
And knock da walls of a broad til she scrawl
Like (OOOOOH!)
Yea something like that, but it depends on the swing of the baseball bat
Fuck a bitch on da counter make the
Place fall mats
On the floor she aint screamin she a nut so they crack
Crack...crack
Fuck that bend over imma give you the dick

Ay bitch! wait til you see my dick
Wait til you see my dick
Ay bitch! wait til you see my dick
Imma beat dat pussy up
Ay bitch! wait til you see my dick
Wait you see my dick
Ay bitch! wait til you see my dick
Imma beat dat pussy up

Like B-AM, B-AM, B-AM, B-AM, B-AM, B-AM,
B-AM, B-AM, B-AM, B-AM, B-AM, B-AM, B-AM, B-AM, B-AM, B-AM

Beat da pussy up, Beat da pussy up,
Beat da pussy up, Beat da pussy up,
Beat da pussy up, Beat da pussy up,
Beat da pussy
Up, Beat da pussy up

(OOOOOOOH!)

[Hashim]

ok, you got me. I'm a post-neo-feminist.

[sally]

hashim, your responses were brilliant. cheers. however, wardell is attempting to hold you accountable, and his point is valid. as a passive observer, id like to see how you'd answer him (seriously).

[Lazarus]

I smell a witch hunt.

[MJ]

A couple of points of clarification. Hashim is a male feminist. We have lots of them. Jeff Chang, kris ex, C-Rayz Walz, Fidel Rodriguez of Seditious Beats, and many, many more. The reason this movement, Hip Hop Feminism is so strong, is because we celebrate diversities and dichotomies rather than let them divide us. Plus we have men by our side today, not behind us, and not ahead of us. I'm a third-generation feminist who has HIP HOP tattooed across her back. I'm beautiful. I shave my underarms. I am not angry, nor a man hater. And I just listened to "Freaky Tales" by Too $hort & Rappin' 4-Tay. This is Hip Hop Feminism. Learn about it...>

[sally]

MJ:
i am way into diversity and dichotomy. i would never, ever refer to myself as ANY kind of feminist, so far be it from me to take that away from someone else. i believe in all kinds of equality and justice, for any goddamn person on this earth. the label feminism just does not enter my picture. the issue at hand, however, is that wardell raised a great point. and it has little to do with shaving armpits or listening to Freaky Tales. Also, it wasnt (I don't think) aimed only at Hashim, I think it was thrown into the blogosphere as a question, like, how do we reconcile these seemingly mutually exclusive ideals? it's not enough to say "this is hiphop feminism! learn about it!!" there should, in my humble opinion, be somekind of thought and accountability. also, lazarus, it's not a witch hunt when you put yourself out there as something and someone questions you on it. it's called a dialogue.

so, again the question is posed, cute answers not withstanding.

[MJ]

The answer, Sally, is that the Ying Yang twins aren't Hip Hop. They are rappers, their product is rap, and it's an example of what happens when you take ART and turn it into COMMODITY. Sex sells, bitches lick their lips, and voila - Rap's been sold to the highest bidder at the lowest common denominator. But Hip Hop is still here, in the cracks and crevices, still the rose that grew from concrete. Those of us who refuse to consume media and the directives of the 10% to buy, buy, buy while we hate ourselves are still breaking, painting graffiti, beatboxing, rhyming, cutting, scratching, and transforming.

The same way some people don't like the way Sally walk, some people don't like the way the twinz talk. Bryan Leach from TVT isn't interested in hearing about how the music he's selling promotes violent sex and sexual violence. He just wants you to spend your hard-earned. So my advice to consumers is to stop consuming media, and if there's something within the media structure you still want to acquire, liberate it instead of buying it.

Don't blame the Ying Yang Twinz, or Lil Jon & them Eastside Boys. It's not their fault, they're just rapping. Blame Seagrams, Vivendi, UMG, AOL/Time Warner, Clear Channel and Radio One, to name a few.

I agree, a dialogue is important, especially surrounding this issue. However, there's no dialogue possible with the above-mentioned corporation. The only sound they should hear from us is silence. The silence of a turned-off TV. The silence of a radio frequency that no longer belongs to them. The silence of the cash register from our communities - Women, People of Color, and the Poor.

1,
MJ

[sally]

mj,

understood, and i hear you and i see where you're coming from (ideologically). my question (wardell's question) remains: how does one resolve touting an ideology that is (seemingly) at odds with the artists that one supports financially? i don't think it's enough to say that the Ying Yang Twins are not hip hop. that is like saying that something isn't art. if someone thinks it is hip hop , than it is, this conversation aside. you or me thinking that something is artistically or creatively lacking, or not "true to its roots," or "commodified" doesn't mean it is or is not hip hop, nor does it negate the influence that an artist or song has. the question is very specific, i wont restate it here because ive already said it a few times. id like to hear hashim's two cents. im not trying to bait or start a fight in any way. i only have an interest in pushing the discussion beyond where it always stops. i dont really have a side here-- i see both.

and also "Don't blame the Ying Yang Twinz, or Lil Jon & them Eastside Boys. It's not their fault, they're just rapping. Blame Seagrams, Vivendi, UMG, AOL/Time Warner, Clear Channel and Radio One, to name a few."

this is not a statement i can get behind. i dont "blame" anyone per se. however, if i were asked to identify anything problematic here, it would not be any one group, or any one corporation, or any one listener. it would be all of us, the acts of consumption we support, and the aesthetic we laud, be it ironically or not. i dont player hate, i just stay away. we have to learn at some point that blaming corporations in a capitalist society will only get us so far. we have to begin to shoulder some of this ourselves.

[MJ]

Peace.

I agree with your points about seeing both sides, that's what I was illustrating when I said I was listening to Too $hort. I don't spend a lot of time blaming any one person, entity or thing for the state of the music. And it is just the music, it's just rap, the rest of the elements of this culture aren't so easily converted into commodities. I do shoulder this responsibility every day. When feminist/author Joan Morgan said to thousands of people at the FHHC "Hip Hop is dead," I put her on the phone with Domino from Hieroglyphics, who was an old acquaintance of hers from her music journo days, and plugged her back in to our world. She simply didn't realize that they are still going strong on the independent tip with www.hieroglyphics.com. I saw her go into reflection/re-examination mode in front of my eyes.

This is just one example, but every single day I carry this weight on my back. In addition to carrying my own, I carry the weight of others and I take it upon myself to educate and empower people. When I was at the source I made it a point to put Hieroglyphics, C-Rayz Walz, Immortal Technique, Los Nativos, and other HIP-HOP groups into the magazine everywhere I could. It made a difference.

Everything goes in waves and cycles, and my main point here is that Rap, and the videos/imagery that go along with it, needs to be the thing that's underground. We had a golden age where Hip Hop was at the forefront, and it was something you could see on TV and hear on the radio. I'm just waiting for the sand in the hourglass to run out, so we can flip this back upright. Let people have to go seek out the tip drill video the way people have to seek out porn. Let them pay per view, provide their credit card number, whatever. That's what I'm saying. And this all is not me talking to Sally, this is something everyone should be thinking about in terms of self-deprogramming and media-intake modification.

1 Love

[sally]

yikes! it scares me when some people get to decide what's conscious and correct and what is straight mysoginistic, since these definitions vary for everyone under a variety of circumstances. i am all for thinking critically, but as for rating things X because they offend us-- we can get carried away with that, just ask tipper gore. it is clear that we all agree on the fundamentals-- sexual violence is wrong and we shouldnt be all for it, etc and so on. im still waiting on the answer about reconciling ying yang twins concert tickets and being in a "feminist movement."

as for putting c rayz and immortal tech in the source- i mean, i dont pick up the source. its values are twisted to begin with, so picture me reading it, just like any wack mainstream publication-- vogue, seventeen and others that promote a disgusting aesthetic. and i dont mean when it was in is "bible" era either. like i said, i dont hate, i just stay away. putting someone conscious in their pages won't make me want to read it. seeing his picture would never make me believe they were trying to change their position on things. it would make me think they want more underground heads reading their publication. it's all about the numbers, right? it might make me think twice about c rayz though...

peace mj

[wardell]

my question to hashim wasn't intended to be flippant or suggestive of a holier-than-thou kind of finger-pointing. nor was it necessarily an insistence on reconciling contradictions -- contradictions present in all of our politics and lived experiences. i think we can point out contradictions and acknowledge them as such without necessarily requiring that they be neatly resolved. (and it certainly isn't about a 'witch hunt').

in some ways, though, it is about (our collective) accountability. on some level i think there is a distinction to be made between the passive consumption of certain messages/images and actively taking it upon oneself to consume said messages/images as record-buyer or concert attendee. on another level, that may be neither here nor there.

it's certainly not my place to try either to define a hip hop feminist politics or males' position(s) therein. i fully realize that both things are worked out in dialogue and in struggle (and have long histories attached to them). still, i think my original question stands.

[Hashim]

My position as a "hip-hop feminist" is simple. I expect myself, my friends, and the artists I support to treat women with common respect.

This means I'm cool with artists making sexy songs, like Ying Yang Twins. I wouldn't be cool with them talking about raping, or hitting women. That's my standard.

Actually, I try to be careful not to take the position of feeling like I need to save all these "poor defenseless women and shield them from attacks from us big bad men." That's the worst kind of misogny.

My postion about the music also is to create more balance in what is offered, not neccesarily stomp out what is "bad." There will always be people making porn movies, but there need to be the same amount making Disney cartoons. The Powers That Be in the industry are not allowing that balance, which is what I'm against.

Feel me?

I'm a learner. I don't take offense at people "calling me out." I'm learning as I go

[MJ]

Aight, this is a lot of back-and-forth. What I say is what I say, it's my opinion, it's how I feel. People who know me know, they know me. And the point of putting Hip Hop in the source is so all those 500,000+ lost readers can (albeit-haphazardly) check out some real shit. Onward & Upward.

Hashim, you're not on some captain-save-a-feminist, and we're far from defenseless. We bear arms with bare arms, believe that. BUT it's great to have U on the team, along with all the other men who support the 'cause.

NOW. I've updated again regarding the FHHC, the true purpose of all these posts, and there's very little of my opinion in Part II. So, check it out at http://pyramids2projects.blogspot.com/2005/04/feminism-in-hip-hop-conference-part.html

For those who were @ the conference, there's always somebody who's on some Fred Hampton Jr. or Byron Hurt ish...> But the first shall be last, and the last shall be first, no?

11
MJ

[Borrowed Pen]

You can't hate on rappers for selling out and you can't hate on big media for selling it. The only people to blame, if you want to play that game, which you probably shouldn't, are the people buying the records. But, fuck it, people like what they like and if you don't like what they like, DON'T BUY IT.

And I don't buy into that rap is different than hip hop argument either. Where do you draw the line? Is some rap more socially conscious than others? Sure, but at what point does it become hip hop? It's silly to try and make a distinction. Rap is rap is rap. Hip hop is a culture, a way of life (culture, politics, arts, sports, fashion, music), and the culture's music happens to be rap! Sure, call it hip-hop music if you want, but don't pretend like there's a difference between hip hop and rap just because you think Black Thought isn't as shallow as Lil' Jon or some shiz. That's crazy talk, yo.

[MJ]

Not a huge Black Thought fan actually. It's not crazy talk at all (but I got some of that too if ya'll want it). It is what it is. My interpretation is that music is either dope, or dog food. Fresh, or the wack. That's how I, myself, divide it. MCs are dope (to me), rappers are wack (to me) - that's how I keep them straight in my memory banks. Somebody who kicked some old fly shit could be dope that day, then drop some real weak music a year later, thus becoming blaaaah to me.

Some commercial/combustible shit is fresh, just like a lot of "underground" shit is garbage. And far as the consumerism, I don't buy any Hip Hop or recently-released music from stores. Not enough of the dough gets to the artist that way. I buy hand-to-hand, in the streets, or at a show. But that's just me though. BTW, it's nice to encounter folks with opinions on this Hip Hop thing, rather than those who borrow them from others...>

XO

MJ

[sally]

borrowed pen, im with you here. the "four elements," mc's versus rappers, hiphop versus rap thing, that is something conscious folk make up to feel better about the ying yang twins of the world, like "oh, yeah i like hiphop, but dont lump me in with that bling bling shit, i like HIPHOP, and they're just RAP."

like you said my man, or wo-man or person, rap is rap is rap.

mj, i respect you and i dont want to knock your hustle, but bear arms with bare arms, i mean, that's just a slogan. it's my problem with a lot of movements. i hear you, but i dont know what you are saying. also, i dont bear arms and my arms arent bare, so i couldnt be down with you guys anyway probably.

peace sally

[Borrowed Pen]

MJ SAID: That's how I, myself, divide it. MCs are dope (to me), rappers are wack (to me) - that's how I keep them straight in my memory banks.

BP SAYS: Fair enough, but we're talking about general classifications of the genre. And these classifications shouldn't hinge on specific people's opinions.

Let's spin this another way, shall we? Just because someone doesn't like BB King, doesn't mean he's not blues. Just because Mick Jagger doesn't make your dippy tingle, doesn't mean he's not rock-and-roll. And just because you think Lil' Jon et al. are complete douchebags, doesn't mean they're not rap. And that Common or Mos Def or whomever aren't right there with them. Rap is rap is rap, like I said before. Love it or hate it, but genre-wise, there's no difference between any of these cats. Because, ultimately, there's no fair way to draw the line. The best I've heard is the what-I-like argument, and that's not doing the guy at the record store any favors. "So, um, is this rap or hip hop? I'm not sure? Would MJ buy it?" C'mon, yo!

I think once a lot of the "intellectual" heads realize this, they'll feel liberated in their love of hip hop. It's a free marketplace, and SoundScan proves that people love party records. And it's silly to waste time hatin' on what other people like. Just don't buy it. Hugs and kisses.

PS, Sally: I'm a guy :)

PS2: MJ, if you're looking for a decent underground cat, check out my website, http://borrowedpen.blogspot.com, and use the search function for a cat named Coley Cole. There's an interview with him on there and he's got some nice tracks on his new LP. I'm pretty sure I have a link to the title track, too.

[MJ]

I have some answers. They're actually direct quotes from a few of the FHHC panelists who spoke on the Hip Hop Archive panel.

Dionne Bennett
"Hip Hop Feminists are not ignoring misogyny but refuse to let the issue obscure the complexity of Hip Hop or limit discourse on Hip Hop."

“THEY’RE NOT TALKING ABOUT ME!” – Refusing to acknowledge yourself as a target won’t prevent you from being shot. This exact theme/quote comes up in Rachel Raimist’s documentary film Nobody Knows My Name, when the illustrious Zenobia Simmons explains that “girls be like, oh they said Bitch, Hoe, but they ain’t talking about me though” and goes on to let those girls know, “YES, they are talking about you.” Again, refusing to acknowledge yourself as a target won’t prevent you from becoming one.

Marcyliena Morgan - “NOT KNOWING IS NOT HIP HOP”. She framed this by saying that Hip Hop is all about ego, and braggadocio, and all about Knowledge. And that it’s very much “not Hip Hop” to be ignorant, unaware, uninformed, or under-educated when exploring a topic.

[Borrowed Pen]

But you still haven't answered the key question: What is the fundamental difference between rap and hip hop, if you believe there is one (which you do), and, more importantly, where do you draw the line?

Where does rap end and hip hop begin?

I want to hear from YOU. Not some cut-and-pasted academia commentary :)

Cheers.

[MJ]

Fundamental difference. What was the writer's purpose when they penned their rhyme, or if they came off the dome, why? Did he or she write it to express themselves? That's Hip Hop. To make a point about something? That's Hip Hop. To talk about how dope they are, and/or how wack somebody else is? That's Hip Hop.

Or did they write down what they wrote or lay a vocal off the top with the sole and express purpose of making money? Was the point of the rhyme nothing more than to fulfill a quota, or get laid down in time to fit a timeline for a release date? That, my darlings, is rap.

Well what about an artist like Common, or Black Thought, or Talib Kweli, you say? Who've sold some records even though they're obviously Hip Hop? I don't believe that any of them ever wrote anything JUST for the money. Even an MC like Jay-Z, I think you can really feel this on any of the tracks on the Black Album - he wasn't rhyming specifically to add on to his bank account. At that point he had so much $$ he didn't need to rap for more.

[sally]

so, mj, it would seem that in order to determine the difference between "rap" and "hiphop" you would have to be inside the head of the artist. you would need to know and evaluate the artist's motivations, no matter how complex there are. if talib GOD FORBID does something for money, the product is decidedly NOT hiphop. but if does something for...what? the love of the music? the people?... then it IS hiphop? it seems like the distinction you really want to make is between what you perceive as an artist's motivation. i seriously dont see how this is a workable theory-- it doesn't have an impact on the quality of the music. mos def is SO hip hop-- especially in the italian job. moreover, i dont see why you'd want to put this theory into practice any way. in other words, couldn't you just say "i dont dig this dude's music because he's not conscious" or "i like this cat because he seems to really be genuine and care about his message." because, in the end, this really is what you're saying, no? maybe it's a tomato-tomahto issue and we are saying the same thing. but what i hear you wanting to put into place is an artificial set of guidelines determined by people who think they have an insight into art, and the "industry" that the rest of us are too blind to see.

peace SALLY

[Borrowed Pen]

Seriously, I don't see anything wrong with having money as a key motivator behind making music. Hell, I don't see a problem with money being the primary motivator. And if you think indie artists strive to keep it real and avoid a big paycheck, you're crazy.

And you said:
"Even an MC like Jay-Z, I think you can really feel this on any of the tracks on the Black Album - he wasn't rhyming specifically to add on to his bank account."

[Cough, cough] Bullshiz!

[MJ]

With all the crisp, clean, cool refreshment that comes from this dialogue-slash-pontification I'm reminded of how many times I made these points 5 years ago on Urban Expose (always using my real name), and 10 years ago on TheDSC.com (a scintillating Wu-Tang based forum). 35 years from now, when you'll be able to blog via telepathy like E.T. phoning home, I'll fondly remember this thread.

The commodification convo will continue, no doubt. Cash for ass is called hoeing/tricking, but cash for raps is called "Hip Hop" nowadays? My crew can't go for that. Let's count our blessings that Bonz is too busy getting projects green-lighted to take time to read this blasphemy.

I disconnected my 2way 'cause rappers had cracked the code and were blowing me up 25 hours a day, Hip Hop couldn't get through to me anymore. Ya'll think U under/over-stand Jay Z? He came up under Big Jaz, he got his science from Dr. Malachi Z. York. He was an Ansaar in the heart of Medina. He sees the big picture. While he was rhymin' bout big pimpin, ya'll was savin and scrimpin, hoping to afford some lobster and scrimp?

Creativity begat creativity, and mind detect mind. I can listen to the first 15 seconds of a song - Hip Hop, Jazz, rap, R&B, Punk, whatevs - and tap into the energy with which it was created. Energy and money don't translate, they're not apples and oranges, more like gasolina and Saudi Arabian babies.

If you call me crazy, you're hardly the first. I'm crazy like a fox, belive that. I'm just Hip Hop, like Flava Flav's clock. Hit me back and tell me about what Hip Hop is, and what it is not, when some of your homies go back to the essence electrocuted by the third rail bombin the trains, or fall 40 feet to their death off a freeway sign catching tags. Hip Hop ain't dead, these rappers are just the wack.

Love is Love,

MJ

[sally]

mj, even though i didnt agree with you, you at least made sense, until this most recent comment. nothing you said above makes any of your previous comments any clearer. nor does it stand alone as a lucid thought. also, your credentials in hiphop, that you've slipped into most of your comments, don't illuminate your points either.

love is love? yes, clearly.

sally

[Hashim]

yeah, MJ. Thanks for stepping up for me, but I can't co-sign much of your rap vs hip-hop argument, and your last comment really confuses me.

Thanks, anyway.

And I appreciate ALL the comments, even the ones challenging me. I'm a listener, a learner and all this is helpful.

[sally]

this conversation definitely went at least a little bit beyond where most of these discussion go, i think. thanks for hosting, hashim. respect, respect

[Borrowed Pen]

MJ SAID: "I can listen to the first 15 seconds of a song - Hip Hop, Jazz, rap, R&B, Punk, whatevs - and tap into the energy with which it was created."

You must have some magical powers that have escaped us mere mortals.

Peace, y'all.

[Norma]

I'm not a feminist and know nothing about hip-hop except a lot I hear insults and degrades women. So it all sounds like an oxymoron to me.

[afra]

afra has come with a new immortality device.

[leo]

I am vitruvian man a Leonardo Da Vinci picture true at www.leoil.com welcome to the new age