Bakari Kitwana: White Fans at Conscious Rap Shows

This week hip-hop intellectual Bakari Kitwana did a piece in the Village Voice about "Black-conscious hip-hop dealing with an overwhelmingly white live audience." I'm not sure what Bakari is trying to tell me in this article. Is this a problem that needs to be solved (since the artists are complaining about it), or a strange fact that should be better understood (since activist Wendy Day wants to study it).

I don't think it's a problem or strange at all. White people are the main draw at conscious hip-hop shows?! Man, that's old news and good news.

According to the political hip-hop groups Bakari interviewed, White people at their concerts is new-news:

"My audience has gone from being over 95 percent Black 10 years ago to over 95 percent white today," laments Boots Riley of the Coup, whose 1994 Genocide and Juice responded to Snoop Dogg's 1993 gangsta party anthem "Gin and Juice."

Negro, please. Ten years ago he was circling his block, doing shows at the neighborhood clubs. Now he performs across the country in venues that have only recently opened their doors to non-rock groups. Who does Boots Riley expect to appear at his show in Oklahoma City?

Black folks are less than 13% of the population, and most of us live in just 10 States (peep the facts). This leaves 40 other States where these conscious emcess are performing that's overwhelmingly NOT Black . The American White population equals more than the combined number of various  minorities. Anything that's popular in America has to have White people involved in a big way. That's just demographic reality.

Bakari offers more "proof":

Looking for the 70 to 80 percent majority white audience? In most cases you won't find it at a Nelly concert or any other top-selling hip-hop artist's show. At large venues like Detroit's 40,000-capacity Comerica Park, where Eminem and 50 Cent will headline the Anger Management Tour in August, estimates suggest that 50 to 60 percent of the seats are filled by white fans. By contrast, Caucasian concertgoers staring down culturally focused Black hip-hop artists topple these numbers. Although to date there's been no attempt to track concert demographic data, fans, promoters, and independent MCs who play live more than half the year give estimates of 85 to 95 percent.

It's never a good idea to offer statistics that start with "estimates suggest." That's like making a promise with a "maybe, someday, I'll think about it." Even if the figure for Black and White fans at major venues is accurate, we're still comparing a tour that hits major cities (remember, that's where the bulk of Black people live), to indie tours that make runs in the smaller markets (remember, that's where the Black people don't live).

What's wrong with White support anyway? I've read too many interviews where these Black conscious emcees are embarrased by their core Caucasion following, bitter at Black people for the lack of support, and jealous of indie White rappers for being more successful than them. Bakari's quotes from political emcees covers all these attitudes. Peep:

• White Fan Shame- "We jokingly refer to our tour as the Cotton Club"
• Black Fan Bitterness- "So many Black people don't want to hear it. They want that thug sh-t."
• White Rapper Jealousy- ""They believe that Aesop Rock is better than independent artists who are Black and mainstream artists like Ludacris. ...they believe it's the white MCs who created the styles they like. This isn't an underground-versus-mainstream thing—it's a racist thing."

Of course! Any underground White rapper who sells more than a Black one must be benefiting from racist fans, not better beats and lyrics! I hate how some of these guys diss their own loyal fanbase, AND the fans they wish they had. Longtime readers of Hip Hop Blogs know that I called out Talib Kweli and Jean Grae for this ungrateful sort of attitude that's tinged with it's own form of racism.

Mr. Lif is a notable, humble exception, however I disagree when he says, "But no artist is in a position to choose his fans." I would argue that these artists choose to perform in Lower Manhattan rather than the Bronx, hang out at Fat Beats instead of Beat Street, and promote their songs college radio and the net rather than mixtapes. If they focused on the hood then they would have plenty more Black fans. Instead, they (or someone in their camp making these decisions) go after the White kids, probably because they feel that's where the money is.

And that's the real problem, and the real story here. Why do conscious emcees pander to Whites, then hate themselves for it? I need to pitch that to the Voice or write a book about it.

------------

Separate, yet related issue. Someone school me on the truth in what Bakari writes here:

"In those days Afrocentric MCs rolled neck and neck with their counterparts, routinely reaching 500,000 units—the gold sales standard of the mid '80s. By decade's end, a few such records—Public Enemy's It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back, for instance—had gone platinum."

Afrocentric MC's routinely reaching gold? A few such records had gone platinum? Really? Who?

I always hear about some magical time in the 90's when conscious rap was super-popular. Public Enemy gets trotted out as an example (yet no one dares mention it was the bangin beats and Chuck's booming voice that drove their popularity, not really the conscious message). Who else was there who was legitmately popular? Not really anyone, I would guess.

I'm not saying I'm right about this. I'm just asking for ya'll to give me names and record sales. If you can't, then let's dead this myth.

Comments

[dj mirateck]

good post. i just read the village voice article as well.

when i went to shows in college, i too noticed that most of the indie/conscious shows consisted of mostly white and asian fans. common, mos def, jurassic 5, hiero, little brother, del... even the hiphop club on campus and the classes on DJing 101 and 2Pac lacked any african-american representation. but i never thought twice about it until i read that article.

[WJC]

People like Aesop Rock becaues his shiz is DOPE, not because he's white. Anyone who thinks otherwise is crazy. I just saw him perform with Mr. Lif on the west coast and, yes, Lif is nice, but Ace killed him on the freestyle. Ace can hang with anyone, yo!

[Aphim]

Nice... yo, you should be writing these news articles for Village Voice and them.

Do you find these articles using Google News set to find Hip Hop articles? I do, and I read this one this morning, before reading your post on it.

[Omar]

Excellent post Hashim!

[k. orr]

To who is this really news?

[cherryl with 2 R's]

i think that some of the artists were coming from a perspective of connectivity... like it must feel a little awkward for emcees to be on some "black power" isht with a white crowd. i don't think they are really mad that *anybody* is buying their records. i know that folks who write lyrics do so to really touch folks...at least some writers are still like this, and sometimes it really validates your own story to see folks just like you vibing to it, but that is just my humble opinion as a poet/writer/etc...

[akil]

This many explain the reason for the Village Voice article...

"Why White Kids Love Hip-Hop" by Bakari Kitwana
(click on Akil below for a link to the publisher)
Does hip-hop belong to black kids?
What in hip-hop appeals to white youth?
Is hip-hop different from what rhythm, blues, jazz, and even rock 'n' roll meant to previous generations?
How have mass media and consumer culture made hip-hop a unique phenomenon?

I have read the unpublished review copy and...

The success of the Culture teaches us race is a social construct...

and we are still constructing...
don't sleep!

[aaron]

i've been to a couple shows, most notably mf doom in philly, murs in baltimore and stones throw tour in NY, all the shows were 70-80 (murs 90%) white. what does this show? nothing. go support your underground hip hop acts, no matter what your color is...

[Dan]

Hashim:

Oh, God, THANK YOU!

I just bought Batwari's book -- haven't read it yet. But I hope it's not more of this stuff.

Frankly, I find that some of my intellectual brethren simply want to see dishonesty and racism lurking behind almost all white interest in hip-hop.

Sigh.

Will have to move this book to the top of The Pile.

Dan

[obifromsouthlondon]

reminds me of the intro to The Roots album, "Illadelph halflife". some ish about not depending on black people to eat. see over here in the UK it's the same runnings from the concerts to the festivals. black heads a drop in a sea of white domes.

dude your argument is spot on. But you've gotta feel Bakari. coming from the heart and all.

[peter mac]

great post! A solid dissection of the Voice article. Gotta wonder, how much of this line of thinking is just a media beat-up?

>>And that's the real problem, and the real story here. Why do conscious emcees pander to Whites, then hate themselves for it? I need to pitch that to the Voice or write a book about it.

Pitch that now!!!

[Hashim]

peter, i don't do media beat-up. I love the media.

[Ken Taté]

Brother Ali is not an "angry white rapper" but is an albino.

[Journartist]

I think Kitwana's right. What's happening to hip-hop is what happened to jazz. White fans are jocking a black art form, and turn to underground because, well, the "conscious" artists are more toned down versions of their "thugged out" counterparts.
Hip-hop started out with that umph, that raw shit factor. Kweli, Jean Grae and other indy, "conscious" artists are great in their own right, but they lack that. And this comes from a fan of both.
I would compare today's thug rappers - most of which are following in Pac's philosophy without understanding it at all - as the true representatives of black music. (I know this can be a point of contention for some on here.)
That's the only explanation I can come up for why Mike Jones is on the come up, as well as Slim Thug. (I, by the way, think Jones is garbage, while Slim is dope.)

[Nat Turner]

Who are you to say that Public Enemy was popular because of Chuck D's 'booming voice' and not its message? Negro please. White takeover of a Black art form is nothing new. It is a sign of death or fossilization. Everytime it has happened in the past (Blues, Jazz, etc)it signalled that Black folk had moved on to create new art forms.

[sightunseen]

As a teenager during the period of public enemy, 90 % of late 80's early 90's hip hop had a pro black theme. Epmd did,Eric b and rakim did ( both gold) x clan did, poor righteous teachers, early wu tang did, nas did, tribe, black sheep, early ice cube, De La Soul, Queen latifah, mc lyte, the jungle brothers, Brand Nubian, Grand Puba, KRS-one and bdp,pete nice& cl smooth, even big daddy kane and kool g rap had a few pro black tracks on thier album. A few of more of these artist did have gold albums in thier hey day. I remember when i was like 13 or 14, gold chains were wack and the more african medallians you had the more respected you were. To this day, play any of the classic tracks by these artist to somebody who is in their late 20's early 30's and they will tell you that this was before record company influence destroyed hip hop.

[mujerdelrio]

The real reason white kids love hip hop is because it confuses the hell out of their parents. Kids used to listen to rock & roll to tick off the folks--now they've gone and started listening to that "gansta crap". And even the conscious stuff is "gansta" to white parents. I've seen it too many times with friends' parents.

That's one thought. Another thought is that most gangsta rap uses the word "nigga" constantly & that probably makes many whites "uncomfortable". "conscious" rap doesn't use nigga & ho & the ususal explitives so much. which probably makes white kids "feel" all liberal & we are the world warm & fuzzy inside when they're at a show.

[Worldwide Underground]

I slightly agree with mujerdelerio..controversy sells..black music was the devil's music throughout history so of course sheltered suburbans would be attracted to rap..rap became extremely popular so it was no long rebellious to listen to..it more conformist..so to be noncomformist they steer clear of mainstream rap and go for more underground artists..also..is it so hard to believe that they are sick of hearing the same song, different beat bullshit..maybe they strive for music with purpose and meaning..music that sticks to its roots?...no of course not its a race thing...white fans may think white rappers started specific styles because the majority of Black artists in the limelight steer clear of "conscious" themes so they assume BLack artist had no part in creating them...now who;s fault is that?...the industry and the media..gangster rap wasn;t created by us it was developed by industry heads who wanted to use it as a corporate cash cow..while many say "gangsta-ism" was the realistic way of life for many BLacks...the reality is NWA approached it differently at first..instead of saying I kill everybody I have ice they stated how the police were unjust and the neighborhoods were fucked..the industry pushed thm towards the less enlightening more demoralizing style because it makes more money and controversy...

..as for the kacj of BLack fans..thats a cultural thing as well as mainstream..the community has to take responsibility over how they represent themselves despite industry manipulation..we've been too brainwashed to believe the minstrel show is working for us..i mean everybody wants to be BLack now..its the "in" thing like atkins and being gay..we're on top..or so we thought...where has it gotten us over the past 30 sum odd years..nowhere..just in deeper shit

[Worldwide Underground]

lack*

[Royalty Free Beats For One Dollar]

Royalty Free Beats For One Dollar

At

http://upbeat.tk

[R Moshki]

GROUPTHINK/MASOCHISM = white embrace of hip-hop.

[piosenki]

The real reason white kids love hip hop is because it confuses the hell out of their parents. Kids used to listen to rock & roll to tick off the folks--now they've gone and started listening to that "gansta crap". And even the conscious stuff is "gansta" to white parents. I've seen it too many times with friends' parents. right i think the same.

[turntablism]

the greatest post i ever read!

[pablo]

In my humble opinion, the reason why white people (like most people who like rap) listen to rap is because they can appreciate talent (if said artist has any that is). If an artist has a message to offer, usually the lyrics are mostly more poetic than alot of mainstream rap, and usually the writer has put more effort into the lyrics. I dont think for one minute that all white kids listen to rap because they want to piss their parents off. True, there maybe some, but then you have to ask wether they actually listen to it. I think its wrong to state that all white kids are the same in respect to listening to rap purely to annoy parents. Come on, give them some credit! Being white myself, and listening to rap as well as many other genres, i did it because i found that i just liked the difference in the sound of rap opposed to pop, rock etc. I also liked the fact that rappers could tell a story through their lyrics and offer a different perspective to life that i had never experienced.

[Andy]

White fans like hip-hop and "alternative hip-hop" because it sounds good and has feeling. Do we really need to justify it?
There is some "sweet, not mainstream" but that's not because of background or race.

British musicians loved and still the Blues. They could be poor but do they really identify with the Delta? No, they'll admit that (Withers for one) but with so much feeling and a great sound to the music they loved it.

More white fans show up at concerts because of reasons above and more time/money to use. In the end there are more white people and the internet has helped all hip-hop fans. And if there's someone like Nelly or Chingy and in big cities there's more of a party atmosphere that draws more Black fans and female fans even if the show isn't as good.

[Nuccle]

good article.

[Mitchell]

great article. I'm esspecially feeling what you said about how people'd be getting more black audiences (mixtapes, not downloadable demos, for example).
I'm white and I got into hip hop when I was younger.. BIG, Twista.. you want to know why? The bare pyscological truth? Cus it was better than anything on the radio. Period. It had good beats, sharp rhyming like I never heard, and it felt like someone was telling me a story.

[Big Blak]

crackers need to Leave Hip Hop Alone!! dey think they down cuz dey be feelin groups like public enemy etc. dey look Stupid listening to My kinda music!! Leave Hip Hop Alone Crackers!!

[Big Blak]

Don't even bring up "Brother Ali" he uses that "i'm albino" BS to make it believable he a black man...the fact is he ain't nothin but a Wigger!! Period!!