RZA drops knowledge the Commonwealth Club SF (full audio link)

The Commonwealth Club of San Francisco, CA is one of those dope organizations that attempts to increase civic participation and social awareness via guest speakers like Al Gore and Steve Jobs. 

They have a subsidiary organization called INFORUM that targets the 20-something crowd with relevant speakers on topics such as urban art, political empowerment, and hip hop.  Last month I visited the Club to see the legendary RZA speak.

The crowd was electric with enthusiasm for the leader of the Wu-Tang clan.  Dude didn't have to impress anyone with beat demos and the like; the sell-out crowd came to hear RZA drop spoken knowledge about his childhood, the WU, his career, and his life philosophy.  RZA dropped his guard, opened up, and made himself vulnerable to the audience- a side you don't see from many other hip hop superstars:

RZA speaks on it (RealAudio, courtesy of Commonwealth Club)

Personally, the most memorable soundbite was during audience Q&A, when a preppy white guy/MC asked something about how white rhetoric affected hip hop.  RZA responded with "Hip-hop has always been black, white, latin... it's all of us..."

It was at that moment that I looked around and realized that I had to struggle to find African-American and other minority attendees in a capacity audience of ~200.  Marketed as being a very conscious and progressive event, I was not surprised.

Comments

[Hashim]

The Abbot has really diversified his game.

I remeber KRS-ONE bragging years ago that he makes a healthy income off of speaking engagements.

[Clyde Smith]

I think making a connection between the marketing of this event and the following for "conscious" hip hop acts is kind of weak, given that it was RZA. I can't find admissions info at the Commonwealth Club site but typically it's $10 to 15 bucks and that's an impediment to a lot of folks.

Also, the Commonwealth Club tends to be visible among predominantly white populations, so it's not the progressive part of their marketing that's at issue.

Finally (and then I'll shut up), this is the Bay Area, one of the real strongholds for politically conscious black rappers but the black community tends to be outside of SF, which has managed to "outsource" their need for black people to Bayview/Hunters Point and the East Bay.

[adisa banjoko]

no joke i was one of the few bacl faces at that event...

there is NO DOUBT, that black people were not marketed to heavily...

however, i notice that there is a difference of audience between those that listen to the rapper rap- and those that listen to the rapper talk...

chuck d, krs come to mind the most...

white people pack the hosue to see them talk...

blacks will pack the house to see PE...

HOWEVER,

if you wanna see the black people...go to a keak da sneak show...

black people go to rap shows...

white folks go to hip hop shows...

thats the real...a famous rapper told me that....

-Adisa

[i'm the skwidawd]

I saw RZA at the L.A. film festival, doing live "remixes" of cartoons. Surprise, surprise... it was mostly white people in the audience. That's because a) you had to pay a lot b) it was in the Hollywood Hills b) they probably limited advertising to public radio and the newspaper c) young black people don't listen to RZA's music anymore d) white people still can't get over Wu's first album. Besides, Black people only make up about 11% of L.A.'s population (national average). Even if a proportionate number of black people showed up... it would still be mostly white people. Duh.

With regard to the actual film festival performance -- as if that were even relevant -- it was wack. I kept thinking... emperor is now taking off clothes... no one is noticing. It was about as entertaining as watching mold grow. Honestly, it was basically an expansion on the "Dark Side of the Moon perfectly fits the first 40 minutes of The Wizard of Oz." No joke.

I think white people are enamored with RZA's mystical innercity Ghost Dog persona. I considered making a reference to the "Magical Negro" discussion we had awhile back, but maybe that's innapropriate.

White people think RZA's a genius. And he is. He's a musical genius... and a marketing genius.

Now, I'm a fan of the RZA (after all, I'm white) but I read his book and I'm thinkin... that's it?... He plays chess, gets stoned, and watches kung fu movies? Alert: emperor is wearing no clothes.

I saw RZA in Coffee and Cigarettes... I seriously hope what he said in that movie was a joke. Either he wrote those lines and played himself, or Jarmusch wrote those lines and RZA got played. Please tell me it was a joke.

One last comment, it seems like we put a lot of pressure on the Black community to show up at every event that features a black person. What's the problem here? 50 years ago the problem was that when a black person spoke... no white people cared to listen. Now it seems the opposite is a problem for some people.

[dj mirateck]

EDIT: to clarify, i'm not a commonwealth inforum member (can't afford their dues), but i went to the RZA event cause i discovered it on a bay area hip hop mailing list.

the week after RZA, i went to an AND 1-type bball tournament that was advertised on that very same list. the main draw was that during the game Ric Roc (producer for Keak da Sneak, Federation, etc.) of Bay Area hyphy fame would be debuting some new beats. and you know what? oakland and richmond represented hard, opposite crowd from the RZA show. white tees, grills, etc. very few backpackers.

i'm not saying that there's a correlation, or that this mailing list was the only place these events were advertised. but one thing's for damn sure in the bay: anything hyphy, oakland and richmond will show up. that streetball event was at upper class USF- TOTALLY out of the way from SF proper, oaktown and richmond- so don't claim that the Commonwealth Club's downtown location was a factor in getting these kids out to the city.

yeah this is all empirical observation, but an observation nonetheless. in the bay, berkeley is the center of the backpacker universe, and oakland/richmond is the center of the hyphy universe. its like a binary star type existence, people know where they stand and can co-exist in the same area.

both camps are hip hop as far as i'm concerned. does RZA represent hip hop more than keak da sneak?

[dj mirateck]

EDIT2: RZA was around $15-$20. that streetball tourney was $15 and they pushed a lot of product (DVDs, cds, shirts) to these oakland/richmond kids.

so money's not an issue either. RZA's is apparently irrelevant to the bling era.

[i'm the skwidawd]

The cost and location are not completely irrelevant. If it were a free event at a local high school in Oakland, I'm sure that would change the demographic a little. Sure, maybe less people would show up. But I wouldn't be surprised if he gave a slightly different talk.

[Clyde Smith]

Nice follow up, y'all. I'm assuming that dj miratek is Michael Miraflor, the author of the post. I've been meaning to write about your outsourcing comments over at ProHipHop and will do that soon. Great topic.

All these angles point to the complexities of hip hop & rap demographics which really interest me.

I do think that the equivalent cost of hearing someone talk and going to a basketball tournament where you can have fun also suggests that different niches have different interests.

Marketing: Just because they were mentioned on the same list doesn't mean that the guys with grills found out about the bball tournament there. My guess is they found out about it through flyers, word of mouth, other media. In any case, you can't compare based soley on the announcements being present on the same list.

Personally, I don't think that it's a problem for a mostly white audience to show up and listen to RZA. I'm glad he's got their ear. The people that tend to express concern over these issues seem to me to be doing so as black people concerned about the values of the black community. And that's an important conversation that I can mostly only observe, since I'm white.

I appreciate people not taking my comments as an attack. Sometimes they come across that way in these discussions but I'm just really into this stuff and into breaking down the details, so I appreciate hearing what people had to say.

Anybody that's interested in demographic issues should feel free to contact me at any time:
clyde(at)prohiphop(dot)com

Peace

[i'm the skwidawd]

I guess the other thing I forgot to mention is that a lot of kids -- black, white, or otherwise -- simply aren't into speaking engagements.

but respect to everyone here, and also to the RZA. i actually have a lot more respect for him than i let on.

[reyshizz]

I'm not surprised by the audience that attended... If I was in the area it would have took some convincing before I would agree to go... people are more interested in being entertained rather then listening to a conversation... that's just the way it is in my opinion...

[StussyD]

Mirateck, great point about the hyphy and backpacker universes.
I grew up on the outskirts of Richmond, blocks from El Cerrito. My high school (El Cerrito) was about 25% middle - upper class white kids and 60% blacks and hispanics (and whites) from the greater Richmond and San Pablo area.
All the music I'm exposed to in school is hyphy music. At a school rally, speakers blared, as Usher and Lil' John made our "booties go *clap*."
It seems to me like the gap between hyphy hip-hop and backpacker hip-hop keeps widening. That said, I believe in the importance of role models, and I don't see one being offered in Lil John or 50 Cent. I do in Lyrics Born, Blackalicious, Del and Mos Def.
Sometimes I feel like I consider a rapper a role model just because he DOESN'T rap about being gangsta. But I guess that in hip-hop, gangsta is slowly losing some ground to Bacardi.
Strangely enough, it seems like almost all of hip-hop can agree on blunts.

[dj mirateck]

StussyD-

i totally feel you. i went to school at berkeley, and i would sometimes hang out in richmond b/c my girlfriend grew up in san pabloe and taught at an education program (making waves) in the rich.

its amazing that those two "universes" are only miles apart. the hip hop left AND right rep hard in the bay area.

[Keak Da Sneak]

E-40 is way dope, but I think Keak Da Sneak is the Hottest out the bay! Most origional style, slang, attitude and he stays underground. Keak Da Sneak has dropped like 10+ albums all independent all dope! Mac Dre is also wayyyy dope too though! Largly responsible for the "hyphy movements" roots, over 20 albums and countless slaps, slang, and entertainment! Plus he made the best movie of all time... Treal TV!

YadadaHeeammmm!?!

[kellan scott]

rzas funny, listing grand wizard theodore as a non black hip hop star.